VL: (breaking in) Well, I mean this... I've taken these pictures here by myself, 'cause I was wanting to satisfy, cause when this one started over... you know, Dayton, I was living right there the edge of Dayton, he like to had a fit because he thought that the thing was coming back to get him.

CTD: Now you see, that says Army National Guard, and a big...

VL: Yeah but...

CTD:... insignia of Texas... ... did you see that at all, was that on the...?

**** (All talking at once)

BC: (emphatic) No I did not!, because I was not in the city of Dayton at the time.

VL: She didn't, She didn't see this one...

CTD: No, no, no, no.... CJC: Hold on a second... We were talking on about the night in question, the night you supposedly saw the object in the sky, the UFO.

BC:No, no.

VL: The only thing... I... the only thing I can tell you is that, to me they, they looked just like this, and I couldn't see nothing on them.

CJC: How were you able to count them at night?... did they...

VL:Well, like I say, I might have counted more or less, but I was saying: one, two, three, because they were coming, I mean, even when we got down there uh to the um, bank we could look back and there were some that were, were going like... they were going toward it. I mean some of them wasn't the double rotary type, some of them was the other type, I mean just a... like, you know they weren't quite as big, but what caught our eyes was the ones that had the double rotaries up there.

BC: They're weird looking.

CTD: OK.

VL: Well they really were!.

CTD: The double rotary one was the one you saw "U.S. Air Force" on... ?

BC: Yeah, CTD:... and it... you did not remember seeing anything like... that looked like a silhouette of the State of Texas?

BC: No.

CJC: OK... Pat, see if we can make ah... copies of...

VL: (breaking in) Well, I mean, I don't care if you have those because the pilot told me that...

BC: (breaking in) Well I do... 'cause that one's mine.

VL: to BC No... what I'm talking about is I don't care if he has a copy.

BC: Oh.... no I don't mind him having a copy.

CJC: OK... no, I'm going to give it back. VL: But... ah... ah... he told me that and when I called this certain person... and uh... he said, try to get his autograph... and uh... when I said... look... the way I done it, I said well Lord be Hallelujah, somebody has really... up and... really somebody that, that really knew something was up there, you know, and he says: "what you mean?". And I said because we were the ones that were hurt that night. And then when this guy called, well he had just heard about it, he didn't...

(break in recording)

CTD: What does your husband do

VL: He works at Richmond Tank Company at Shelby

CTD: What's his job, what... ?

VL: He's a... um... he runs a... uh, uh, uh, now wait now, let me... um... (nervous laugh)... anyway...

VL: He did do brake work, and now they got him where ah, he's old enough where he just walks around a running the tests's on all the cars, they call it some kind of tests, you know, where they test the brakes, and if they any leaks, well then he tells somebody where its happening.

CTD: Does he have some type of medical insurance at all?

VL: Yes sir, but you can't get no doctor to help you get into the hospital or nothing.

CTD: But you did have some type of medical insurance.

VL: Oh, yes sir.

CTD: What about you? Did you work anyplace?

BC: I have Medicare.

CTD: OK. Did you work at that time anyplace?

BC: No, no I wasn't... the reason we was just out tooling around.

CTD: Are you retired, or ... ?

BC: No, I'm not retired, I'm just not able to go back to work.

VL: Well, she did have her own business.

BC: I had, well James did, I didn't, and I got a divorce.

CTD: OK, have you just gotten a divorce when this happened?

BC: Right.

CTD: 'Bout how long ago?

BC: Well, I had filed for it in January, or February, and I had gotten it in, what, July or August.

CJC: 1980?

BC: Yes... it was about six - seven months, when I got it.

CTD: And you got the business that you... you and your husband had?

BC: Closed it up.

CTD: You closed it up... what kind of business was it?

BC: It was a restaurant and a grocery store... couldn't make no money (nervous laugh).

CL: Can we go for ice cream?

CJC: OK, now I asked you earlier, uh... you came here because Senator Benson had recommended that you come here.

BC:Yes.

CJC: Is there anything in particular you hope to gain by coming and talking with um... us in the Air Force, to people in the Air Force?

BC:(emphatically) Sure! That's the main purpose we're here.

CJC: Alright, would you... this is again for you to tell me... why don't you tell me what you hope to gain, Ms. Cash.

BC:Well, I hope to find out what the object was, and what the purpose of it was, being there on the road at the time, and God forbid I don't ever want anything to happen to any of my family or my friends, even to you or your family, even to an animal to what I've had to go through. It would satisfy my mind to find out what it was and what it was doing there. I believe that our federal government... we've GOT to have secrets, let's face it, in a very severe time like we are going through right now...

BC: Who's supposed to protect us?

...but things that hurt the American people, then I think it's time they should be stopped.

CJC: OK, Ms. Landrum, what is your hopes or aspirations with coming and talking with us today?

BC: Well, that's what I'm hoping for, there has to be an answer somewhere, you know?... CL: Right.

VL:... And what better place is it than a part of the government, because they're supposed to protect us anyway, right? Because my husband went over there and fought for two and a half years... he got two purple hearts out of the deal, and if you're not protected, what did he go over there for?

CJC: OK, now Representative Williamson said: that since 1969 the Air Force no longer has been made... has been the responsible agency to investigate UFO sightings... some of the history that the Congressman told you is correct... ah... before 1969 there was a Project Bluebook... which Project Bluebook basically was just to keep up with all the sightings... all incidents where individuals had seen UFOs and what had happened. In 1969, that was one of the things that Congress said that the Air Force will not do anymore. Then in 1974 - 1975, the President of the United States at that time recommended that NASA, The National Aeronautics and Space Administration see if it would serve any national interest to reopen Project Bluebook with the idea of researching UFOs and occurrences as they happen in the United States. It was the response back of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration that they not reopen Project Bluebook. Now the reason I'm telling you this is that once you tell you me your story today, I am without any power at all to do anything here a this level...

BC:(agitated) Well now, what can we do?

CJC:OK... Alright... just let me say I'm not, can I get in the position of advising you to do one (chuckle) thing or another, but let me just tell you that, other than hearing your story, I have nobody to refer it to higher than this base here, with the exception of the agency of the Air Force that used to investigate UFO sightings and keep up with it. Now that office I'll be more than happy to forward a brief report of what happened today and what you told us and it will be up to them to determine whether or not they will take any action with respect to it. Ms. Cash, Ms. Landrum, I do not know...

VL: (very agitated) Where... but where do we go?..

CTD: Did you get a letter that mentions the National Archives, and the organizations that investigate UFOs?... that you said you got from Charles Wilson, I believe?... do you have that?

VL: No, I, I turned it over and wrote him a letter back.

CTD: But do you have the letter he sent to you?

VL: Huh?... No, I turned it over and wrote him a letter on the back side of it...

CTD: OK..

VL: .. and sent it back to him

CJC:Ms. Landrum, the situation is this, at one time, the federal government investigated these claims, complaints of what happened, but there are such... there's such a large number of private organizations like you've already been in contact with that also have started investigating, that Congress has essentially said that it serves no useful purpose to have all these private organizations investigating it and have the United States Government investigate it as well. Now, in other words there'd be no value in doing two reports and if these separate companies or groups that investigate UFO sightings can do a good job investigating it then there's really no need for the Air Force or for the Army or anybody else to investigate it as well. Now it sounds that you have generated quite a bit of interest from these other groups, I know that this gentleman that called and talked with you, also you're going to meet with some other people, and there was a scientist that said that he wanted to keep your fingernail clippings to subject them to some tests... Ah... I can give you an address of the agency in Washington that used to investigate these complaints and they will send you back a package of private organization such as those you've been in contact with already...(unintelligible, covered by:)

VL: (breaking in) Well, we've only been in contact with one.

CJC :OK, I cannot sit here and say how many there are or where they're located...

VL: (breaking in, agitated) Look!... I mean... AH...

CJC: (continuing) and they will send you an effective package of people to contact and, you know, maybe even want to yet in contact with you regarding what happened to you, and see what's to be done...

VL: To put it point blank, what we thought maybe you could give us an answer of where to go from here, or what to do, because I'm gonna find the answer...

CJC: Well as I said...

VL: (continuing) ... it might take me a lifetime but I intend to find it.

CJC:Well, my intentions are in no way to frustrate you if I can help you... (unintelligible, covered by:)

VL: (breaking in) You know what I mean though...

CJC: Yes, I understand...

VL:... because I'm gonna find the answer, and it had to be something the government had up there, you know, and I intend to find it.

CJC: Well, what I'm going suggest is this... we will prepare a report, and again, it'll be nothing more than just a letter saying that we met with you today, and that we have copies of the tape recordings of our conversation as well as Xerox copies of, you know, what we were able to copy at the time, and we'll forward this to this agency in Washington that formerly investigated it, it will have to be up to them whether to contact you to further to... to open up a special investigation into it, or to correspond with you directly, but that is the only thing I can do for you at this time.

BC: Well, who is responsible for us being injured?

CJC: I'm afraid I can't answer that, again, I, you know... based upon the story that you said, you know, maybe you would like to consult a civilian attorney and see what action he'd like to take to with respect to that, relative to whether or not I can confirm or deny that I do not have that ability, nor do I have that knowledge, as to whether or not it in fact occurred.

VL; We just thought we might be get some answers if we came up here, and I guess we drove (chuckle) all that far for nothing.

BC: Well, it was a clear try, I mean they've been nice, and I appreciate it.

VL: I know, I really appreciate it, but I don't want no more uh, uh... investigators having me go over the deal, because uh... the thing about is I was hypnotized, I have the tape if they want to hear the tape, that's fine, but I don't intend to go through it anymore.

CJC: I understand. Well I can assure you that a bunch of lawyers...

VL: (breaking in) I don't, I don't, and there's a lot of quacks, there really is, that's uh... supposed to be big UFO dealers and wheelers, and they're not after hunting the truth, they after something... proving something that's unreal, and it's... what was up there was real, it hurt us, it wasn't outer space either.

CJC: Well, sometimes they're out to make a sensational story, they'll get people to buy their publication, to read it, but my interest in this is, you know, I have no intentions of making any type of report to the newspaper or anything, I will do exactly as...

BC: (at same time as CJC above:) Right... right, right.

VL: Don't put that on his arm, it would hurt him probably.

CJC:That's OK, I got a little boy just about your age myself... Ah... my intentions are to hear what you had to say this morning and to try to get it into an agency of the Air Force or portion of the Air Force that could help you. I must be frank with you and tell you that I know of no such part of the Air Force that today investigates these complaints but, on your behalf, I will forward it on to that agency and say, look this is what these people reported to me. I give it to you to decide if you want to do something with it or not, if you want to do something with it then fine, but, you know, unfortunately Senator Benson in referring you here... we're an agency that has not investigated UFO sightings in almost eleven years. And then we were, in effect, told by the Congress and the President that we would not be doing that anymore.

BC: Well, he didn't tell me to come here for you to investigate UFOs, he said to come here to file a claim.

CJC: OK, now if you wish to file a claim, we can help you in that respect.

VL: That's why (unintelligible)... that's what we want to do.

CJC:OK, if you wish to do that... Miss Wolf... we have the documents and the paperwork to assist you in getting started along those lines, but I must tell you at the beginning, OK, in as much that I am a government attorney as is Captain Davis... we cannot provide you with legal advice...

VL: .. Well, we don't need any legal advice.

CJC: ... the claims forms are the forms which, and they're self explanatory...

VL: Cause, we have the proof, and when you have the proof, you don't need legal advice.

CJC: Well... that's... that's true, I'm sure... but anyhow, the ah... the forms are self explanatory, Miss Wolf will give them to you and if you wish to go ahead and file a claim, then, you know we'll process it in that respect, OK? Now let me ask you, do you wish that I go forward with this information to Washington?

BC: (emphatically) Sure!

CJC: .. or that I hold it back and attach it to your claim?

BC: Well, send it on in.

VL Either way, either way, (unintelligible)... the better I'd like it. It doesn't make any difference to me.

CJC:OK. Again, my intentions in talking with you today was to find out as much as possible about what happened...

VL:(breaking in) And we appreciate it, because ah... ah, we've been trying for seven, almost eight months now... ah to get answers which we get pieces, a little here, a little there till, um... its pretty well... like a puzzle you're putting together.. and... we gonna get it together... it's gonna be fit together.

CTD: We suggest that ah... you get advice from a civilian attorney about filling out your claim forms and filing a claim.

BC:OK.

CJC:Primarily so that whenever you go to process it, or once it's submitted that everything you need to have is there, and all the things you may be claiming against are attached to the claims document, and we have everything, you know, to go by... now I'm sure they'll require some written statement as to what happened to you, and if you'd like, you can reference the conversation that we had today... ah... but I'll assure you that it'll be given the same consideration as any other claim that is made against the government, as far as to determining whether or not it's a claim that the United States Government should pay, and, you know, it'll be treated with, you know, the same type of consideration that we give the others... Captain Davis, would you like to explain to them the claims procedure?

PW:Ok, we got enough for both of 'em?

Um hum.

CJC:... have to be one for each of you... one for Colby, one for Eunice Cash, one for Eunice Landrum.

CTD:... And you'll need two... and you'll need... The forms are self-explanatory, but you'll need to sign 'em, all this original and like I said, you may want to consult with a civilian attorney to yet the best advice on what to do ... but uh ... the claim forms are really self-explanatory.

VL: OK.

CL: I want to sign.

CJC: I think you'll have to wait a few years before you'll know how.

VL: If you wouldn't mind, (unintelligible) here's our address, you can just mail it to Dayton.

CTD: . Dayton is in our...

CJC: I'm sure I'll take your word for it, Ms. Cash.

BC: (laughs)

CTD: Your name begins with a "C", C-A-S-H?

BC: Right.

CTD: OK.

CJC:OK... I'm glad you came by here today, and again my intentions are to help you in any way I can from the standpoint of getting you channeled into the right Air Force Agency, I also have the obligation to tell you that we have no such agency to investigate or to find out from it, and I must tell you that as well, 'cause I don't have the authority here to create one...

BC: breaking in) Right...

PW: We will need to have these forms filled out, in the original and two carbon copies, but you'll have to sign all three copies, Ok?... and as for your son here, since you're his legal guardian you will sign...

BC:Fill each form with two carbon copies?

PW:Yes ma'am... Uh huh... Put the two carbons in and just fill out the one form and it'll come through, but do sign each one.

BC: Well thank you, I'm sorry that we took up your time, but we had to get...

CJC: My time is your time

VL: That's the reason I was hypnotized, because, I mean, I, I, I knew I wasn't lying, and I did it because I wanted these other people to know I wasn't lying, so ah....

CJC:OK, if you would please, ah... just so that... since we referenced it in our conversation, the letter from Senator Benson, if you would you please let us have it...

BC: Surely.

CJC: ... you know, it would give us a document...

VL:I appreciate him sending it to me, it's more than we could get out of anybody else... so I really appreciated him taking up his time.

CJC:OK, well we certainly appreciate you coming by... do you-all need any help in getting off base, or anything?

VL:

BC:No, I think we can make it.

BC: We found it. (laughs)

VL:The only thing is terrible my eyes are bad and I can hardly see how to drive, and she... her being in the hospital and everything, she forgot she had a birthday, and when she was sick down here a while ago she got expired driver's license!

BC: Oh dear! (laughs)

VL: Well, I guess I'll have to drive back today..

VL&BC: (Both together laughing and joking about driving home)

BC: ... Unless I go downtown and get my driver's license..

VL: (breaking in) Reckon she could yet 'em down here? CJC:Oh, yes, there are several places here and they'll make them for you while you wait, there's one down on, what is that? (unintelligible), isn't that a big testing center there?

(Cassette end)

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